Newbie from Canada

If it's broken or just needs tweaked

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spitifre
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:30 pm

Newbie from Canada

Postby spitifre » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:30 pm

Hi to all of you out there. Have decided to start riding again after a long time absence. Have spent a lot of time around quads and dirt bikes but I am not too familiar with four cylinder four strokes. I have purchased a 1980 CB650 custom (33,00 kilo) custom that has sat for close to twenty years and have decided to restore it. Looks like a bit of a mess right now but I was able to get it running. It appears to be bone stock other than the exhaust mufflers are Jardine (not stock if I am correct). I have spent countless hours cleaning etc. but it appears that I could use some help. I have rebuilt the carbs - replaced the plugs - tank etc. The problems I am having is that after installing new plugs (D8EA) they have no spark but the old ones do & after it started again, the muffler on the 3 & 4 side turned cherry red (could have cooked burgers on it). Not quite sure what is causing these issues

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Volker_P
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Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby Volker_P » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:43 am

Welcome here! :D

no good idea to leave a bike idle for minutes. Especially if it does not run properly.
As the headers are double walled, they won't glow (but get blue).
Possibly you had fuel in the exhaust, however in this case the bike should have idled very noisy with popping and explosions. Did it?
Or these mufflers are already that corroded inside so the walls are too thin or something blocked the center so the hot stuff close to the wall heated particularly the wall.
Strange anyway.
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forum links to common technical issues

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cb650
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Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby cb650 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:07 am

Aftermarket pipes are usually single wall.
Did you clean the tank out?!?!?!?!

Spyug53
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Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby Spyug53 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:54 pm

Welcome to the wonderful world of 4 strokes :D

Now when you said the mufflers went cherry red, did you infact mean the headers or pipes closer to the head?

I have never heard of mufflers getting hot enough to glow. I agree with Volker that in order for that to occur there would need to be fuel introduced to the muffler itself.

Glowing headers is not something unheard of and could occur from over rich carburation. I would think you may have a set of dirty carbs, which is really common, with one pair pissing fuel and the other pair plugged or running lean.

Fresh plugs should, of course, fire and for all of them not to is really strange too, especially if the old plugs still will light up. All I can think of is a bad batch of plugs. How exactly did you test them? On one particular lead with the plug grounded to the block ? Did you test all leads?

You have some interesting issues but I'm sure they are fixable. Please give us some more info and we'll see if we can help you get to the bottom of things.

Cheers.
"Slowest beasts are always strongest and Manage to live the longest".
"If it's no Scottish, it's crap".

spitifre
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Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby spitifre » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:26 pm

Sorry I didn't reply sooner but I just got back into town. Thank you for the info.
As far as how it has gone, I found that two of the new (D8EA) four plugs that I installed weren't firing. Installed new plugs & wires and it seems to have fixed the glowing red muffler problem. By the way it was right were the baffle would sit. I have struggled my way through getting this old beast going but it has been both enjoyable and extremely frustrating at times. I have a long way to go before it will be road worthy. I was able to pick up a donor (blown motor) for $50.00 and will use some of the parts. If anyone needs anything that is left over (free - you pay the shipping) let me know. Hope to contribute some helpful info as I progress. Thanks again

FordMan
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Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby FordMan » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:17 pm

BTW, This thread is useless without Pics..... :wink: :P :lol: :shock: :mrgreen:
Welcome Btw!! Good luck with the bike.
"Vintage Revolution"
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOrn_h ... DZhOPmH81w
Current:
1979 Honda CB650 (HardTail Build)
1983 Suzuki GS850L (Fix and Minor Restore)
Old:
1989 Suzuki Katana 600
1978 Honda CB400T "Hawk"
1983 Honda VF750

Spyug53
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Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby Spyug53 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:06 pm

I have struggled my way through getting this old beast going but it has been both enjoyable and extremely frustrating at times


Oh truer words were never spoken my friend. That is the way of it with these old beasts for certain.

They can be the most annoying soul destroying hunks of junk but also teach us so much about ourselves and give immeasurable pleasure when we solve a problem on our own.

I have yet to find anything as satisfying as getting a non runner that has sat for years back on its rubber and running like she was meant to. To know that you have the skill to make something work again is a fantastic boost and will give a deep and lasting sense of pleasure when your accomplishments are noted by others.

It is a great hobby you have come to my friend.

Enjoy every frustrating minute :D
"Slowest beasts are always strongest and Manage to live the longest".
"If it's no Scottish, it's crap".

spitifre
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Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby spitifre » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:45 pm

I have a long way to go on the technical side, but you definitely hit the nail on the head about learning more about yourself. #1 on the list, is patience which I have always been a little short on. The enjoyment you do get from taking something that nobody else wanted or gave up on is certainly satisfying. I am hoping to retire within the next couple of years and this will be my hobby. The next stage will be tank relining and possible totally rebuilding the carbs as I seem to go one forward and two back. Until the carb issue is completely solved I think I will continue to flounder. I will submit pictures of both the donor and current project bike in the near future. Have been working on a alternative to replace the intake boots and will submit the info once it feel it has some value. Thanks again for the info and support.

Spyug53
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Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby Spyug53 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:14 am

Until the carb issue is completely solved I think I will continue to flounder.


More true words my friend.Until the bike is running and importantly idling correctly it makes doing much of anything else very difficult.

The most important function after the engine running and the bike being able to shift is braking (if you want to be technical) but more importantly when refurbing is charging.

Electricals are the bugbear and Achille's heel of all old bikes. Years of neglect and corrosion often play havoc with the charging system and a bike that doesn't charge properly can and will cause all kinds of problems for you. Not the least of which might be stranding you somewhere far from home (been there....more than once.....done that and threw away the t-shirt, ha,ha).

As soon as the bike can idle and rev you will want to dive into the electrics with an eye to first finding out how you are charging.

Being relatively new to this forum I'm not sure if we have a section covering this but if you wander over to the GS Resources forum and check over the "Stator Papers" which is a very comprehensive package and fault finding flowchart for all things electrical, you should have no difficulty checking your charging.

Unfortunately they are redesigning the site so the tutorial is not back in its normal place. Just do a search and it should come up.

Before you get to that, of course, you need the bike to run right so you need to pull off those carbs, clean and rebuild. I know there is information on that somewhere here.

This biggest thing about carb cleaning is that the only way to do it right is to disassemble them and dunk them in proper carb cleaning fluid. It will seem intimidating at first but just take your time. As long as you are relatively organized it is not difficult. You will need fresh O-rings to replace those that are worn and please beaware they may appear ok but you mayfind splits if you pull on them. Splits will let air in and that can be the biggest cause of poorly operating carbs.....so don't stint on them.

So have a go at it and get her running right.

cheers and good luck!
"Slowest beasts are always strongest and Manage to live the longest".
"If it's no Scottish, it's crap".

spitifre
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:30 pm

Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby spitifre » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:17 pm

I have it running on all four but still running extremely rich (black sooty plugs). I intend to pull the carbs again and rebuild them completely. The rear air intake boots keep sliding off so I think I will replace them using some zip coupling (Rollee PK4040 - 1-1/2 copper x 1-1/2 copper rubber couplings) The weather was just great the past week getting up to plus 20c, now we are back to winter minus 20c. Heated up the garage and will start the carbs tomorrow. Thanks for the info.

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Volker_P
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Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby Volker_P » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:52 am

I would guess it is difficult to get bright plugs in January in Canada.
Did you go for a real ride with some rpms?
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum

spitifre
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Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:30 pm

Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby spitifre » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:14 pm

I don't have any snow chains for it. LOL Just started the whole process over again but hope to get it right this time. I can see now, that if you aren't patient and follow some what of a process, you will just delay the inevitable and have to to do it over anyways. Fixing old bikes appears to be a combination of knowledge with high level of patience. Started with #1 - the tank. I thought it was clean - wrong. I have flushed four time using various chemical and found more crap coming out it. I am looking at a possible tank liner, not because it is pin holed but merely eliminate the rust particles. Not sure what I will use so your feed back would be appreciated.

Spyug53
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Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby Spyug53 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:11 pm

Ok my friend, I have tried them all and to my mind the best is from Caswell plating. Phenol novilac epoxy.

The thing I like about it is that you do not have to totally eradicate the rust for the liner to bond to the tank. In fact in their literature they recommend you leave most of the rust for it to bond to. Most of the other kinds require an absolutely clean tank for their products to bond. The worst of the bunch IMHO is Kreem. Do not buy that it is the worst to work with and seldom lasts a year or two before it delaminates. Junk.

I have done 3 tanks now with Caswell and they all turned out very well and are long lasting. One is going on 6 years now.

Not cheap, around $50 but that will do 2 tanks so really cost effective.
http://www.caswellcanada.ca/shop/epoxy- ... ealer.html

The distributor is up around Peterborough as I recall.

Check that out.

Cheers,
"Slowest beasts are always strongest and Manage to live the longest".
"If it's no Scottish, it's crap".

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Volker_P
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Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby Volker_P » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:38 am

I would not put any additional stuff into the tank. Sometimes things become even worse by that.
Here are some useful recommendations. You should get most of it out that way.

If still in doubt afterwards, make sure the filter screen at the petcock is all right and install an additional, fine enough inline filter. I think I never cleaned my carbs after I installed the inline filter on the right side of the below picture. :wink:


Image
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com

forum links to common technical issues

If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum

spitifre
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:30 pm

Re: Newbie from Canada

Postby spitifre » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:25 pm

Thanks for all the info. I will be asking more questions as I progress. Will shoot some pictures this weekend and post. Thanks again.


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