Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:27 am
- Location: Toronto, ON
Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
Hello all, I have a 1979 CB650 which, not coincidentally, was my first bike as a skinny 20-year-old. This particular bike I purchased in 2011, fixed up a few things, painted the tank, and sold to a young couple. It had about 9000 miles on it. A friend had made me a new leather seat for it.
Browsing Kijiji one day, I did a double-take when I recognized that old bike and the seat, now being sold for parts. I went and took a look and it was in sorry shape. Had been left outside by the looks of it for the past seven years. Apart from four broken turn signals it seemed complete and nothing was bent where it shouldn't have been. It had no ownership or keys. Got it for $360.00 Imagine my surprise when I obtained the used vehicle information package and found it was still registered in my name!
I've always worked on my own bikes. This site has been a huge help in assisting me with the peculiarities of the 650s.
So far I've
-Replaced the ignition
-Replaced front master cylinder and caliper
-replaced both tires
-replaced sprockets and chain
-replaced the turn signals
-new fork oil
-oil change and filter
-cleaned the tank
-cleaned the carbs (without pulling the slow jets) They were not in terrible shape
-disassembled the speedo and tach to straighten the needles during which I broke the tach needle
-vacuum-synched the carbs
-adjusted the valves
-checked the timing
-checked the coils and that all plugs are getting a park
-adjusted the floats (only 1, actually)
So here are my issues:
Minor- two-wire aftermarket rear turn signals are turning on with ignition. Everything wired correctly so not sure how this is happening. Only the three-wire fronts are supposed to be running lights.
Major- Cylinders number three and four are not heating up the pipes. Plugs on one and two are textbook tan. Three is a bit better than four's plug which has a bit of black easily wiped-off carbon but doesn't really look used. This was the carb than needed the float adjusted as it was filling too high. I also have a stumbling around 6,500-7000k rpm now and it won't rev higher. Somewhere along the way I had it revving strongly to 8,000 so I'm not sure where I went backwards. I do have a new air filter on order but the old, probably original one doesn't look terrible.
Three's pipe gets hotter than four but not as hot as 1 and 2. Occasionally there has been a bit of white smoke out of the right side muffler.
11,000 miles seems a bit newish for ring problems. At this point all I can think of is to re-check the valves but I did them very carefully with my wife checking things as I went along.
Any suggestions would be welcomed.
Dave, Toronto, Canada
Browsing Kijiji one day, I did a double-take when I recognized that old bike and the seat, now being sold for parts. I went and took a look and it was in sorry shape. Had been left outside by the looks of it for the past seven years. Apart from four broken turn signals it seemed complete and nothing was bent where it shouldn't have been. It had no ownership or keys. Got it for $360.00 Imagine my surprise when I obtained the used vehicle information package and found it was still registered in my name!
I've always worked on my own bikes. This site has been a huge help in assisting me with the peculiarities of the 650s.
So far I've
-Replaced the ignition
-Replaced front master cylinder and caliper
-replaced both tires
-replaced sprockets and chain
-replaced the turn signals
-new fork oil
-oil change and filter
-cleaned the tank
-cleaned the carbs (without pulling the slow jets) They were not in terrible shape
-disassembled the speedo and tach to straighten the needles during which I broke the tach needle
-vacuum-synched the carbs
-adjusted the valves
-checked the timing
-checked the coils and that all plugs are getting a park
-adjusted the floats (only 1, actually)
So here are my issues:
Minor- two-wire aftermarket rear turn signals are turning on with ignition. Everything wired correctly so not sure how this is happening. Only the three-wire fronts are supposed to be running lights.
Major- Cylinders number three and four are not heating up the pipes. Plugs on one and two are textbook tan. Three is a bit better than four's plug which has a bit of black easily wiped-off carbon but doesn't really look used. This was the carb than needed the float adjusted as it was filling too high. I also have a stumbling around 6,500-7000k rpm now and it won't rev higher. Somewhere along the way I had it revving strongly to 8,000 so I'm not sure where I went backwards. I do have a new air filter on order but the old, probably original one doesn't look terrible.
Three's pipe gets hotter than four but not as hot as 1 and 2. Occasionally there has been a bit of white smoke out of the right side muffler.
11,000 miles seems a bit newish for ring problems. At this point all I can think of is to re-check the valves but I did them very carefully with my wife checking things as I went along.
Any suggestions would be welcomed.
Dave, Toronto, Canada
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:27 am
- Location: Toronto, ON
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
ps, I am getting some popping from the right hand pipe on deceleration
Dave
Dave
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
Welcome here!
Interesting reunion story.
To your problems:
The plug cables from left coil go to cylinders 1+4, from right coil to 2+3. You would not be the first one who mixes them up
Also try to swap plugs just to be sure.
1+2 are closest to the fuel inlet of the carbs, 3 is a bit further and it is the longest path to 4. So consider a fuel issue, too.
If you did that:
before you fixed other carb and engine related stuff and you had to adjust a lot your carbs might be heavily out of sync now.
Check if all four sliders open simultaneously from completely closed to the same, small gap when you turn in the idle adjustment knob.
Probably you need to take the carbs out again to do so, so check out for other possible issues before.
Good luck!
Interesting reunion story.
To your problems:
The plug cables from left coil go to cylinders 1+4, from right coil to 2+3. You would not be the first one who mixes them up
Also try to swap plugs just to be sure.
1+2 are closest to the fuel inlet of the carbs, 3 is a bit further and it is the longest path to 4. So consider a fuel issue, too.
If you did that:
Barneycanoe wrote:...
-vacuum-synched the carbs
...
before you fixed other carb and engine related stuff and you had to adjust a lot your carbs might be heavily out of sync now.
Check if all four sliders open simultaneously from completely closed to the same, small gap when you turn in the idle adjustment knob.
Probably you need to take the carbs out again to do so, so check out for other possible issues before.
Good luck!
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com
forum links to common technical issues
If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum
forum links to common technical issues
If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:27 am
- Location: Toronto, ON
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
Thank you. Plug wires are on the proper coils. Here are a couple of pics of my plugs taken yesterday.
I did not take the carbs apart when I cleaned. I hear what you are saying about the distance of the carbs from the fuel hose, and three seems a bit hotter than four. But all carb bowls fill up with no issues. Thing is, after first carb clean I had the bike up to 8k rpm with no bogging so I am trying to figure out what I could have done that has caused this.
AF screws were originally 4 1/4 turns out. I have them at about 3 turns out now.
Dave
I did not take the carbs apart when I cleaned. I hear what you are saying about the distance of the carbs from the fuel hose, and three seems a bit hotter than four. But all carb bowls fill up with no issues. Thing is, after first carb clean I had the bike up to 8k rpm with no bogging so I am trying to figure out what I could have done that has caused this.
AF screws were originally 4 1/4 turns out. I have them at about 3 turns out now.
Dave
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
You say you cleaned the carbs, but did not take them apart? It's tough to get them really clean while they are still together. There are a lot of internal passages that can get plugged. Also, if the fuel tank has not been thoroughly cleaned, there may have been debris in the tank that came out and is now in the carb bank somewhere.
Have a problem with your CB650? Have a technical question? Click here!
My Current Bikes: 2005 HD FLHTCUI Electra Glide Ultra Classic, 2007 Yamaha Vino,
My Current Bikes: 2005 HD FLHTCUI Electra Glide Ultra Classic, 2007 Yamaha Vino,
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:27 am
- Location: Toronto, ON
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
I did thoroughly clean the fuel tank, fuel strainer still intact and clean.
Dave
Dave
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
most likely both jets and emulsion tubes need cleaned in all the carbs.
Did you clean the tank out?!?!?!?!
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:27 am
- Location: Toronto, ON
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
Going to pull the slow jets and have a look. The carbs were actually not as bad as I thought they would be when I got into them (twice now).
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
Thanks for the helpful pictures.
Your plugs look good. 3+4 seem to have fired a bit, too, but never got hot. I would expect 3+4 look wet and black if they had fuel but no ignition or compression. Therefore my guess is a fuel/carb issue here.
Forget about the idle jets and passages for now, they should play no role for riding rpm's.
At least not directly.
But as I already mentioned: if you tried a vacuum sync with a clogged idle system you probably had to adjust a lot and now slider positions might be poor.
And that could impact riding rpm's, too!
For now I would try the following first:
Open the petcock and then the release screw at the bottom of carb #1. Use a jar to catch the fuel and watch for while.
Then close #1 and repeat for #4 and compare the fuel flow. If you can notice a difference, #2 and #3 are interesting, too.
I understand that #4 floater bowl has fuel but it is also a question of refill.
And -as you said- headers #3 and #4 are not just cold. Maybe 3+4 quit after a short time or fire only occasionally after some time. This would match the look of your 3+4 plugs.
From your above list:
You remember which one?
Your plugs look good. 3+4 seem to have fired a bit, too, but never got hot. I would expect 3+4 look wet and black if they had fuel but no ignition or compression. Therefore my guess is a fuel/carb issue here.
Forget about the idle jets and passages for now, they should play no role for riding rpm's.
At least not directly.
But as I already mentioned: if you tried a vacuum sync with a clogged idle system you probably had to adjust a lot and now slider positions might be poor.
And that could impact riding rpm's, too!
For now I would try the following first:
Open the petcock and then the release screw at the bottom of carb #1. Use a jar to catch the fuel and watch for while.
Then close #1 and repeat for #4 and compare the fuel flow. If you can notice a difference, #2 and #3 are interesting, too.
I understand that #4 floater bowl has fuel but it is also a question of refill.
And -as you said- headers #3 and #4 are not just cold. Maybe 3+4 quit after a short time or fire only occasionally after some time. This would match the look of your 3+4 plugs.
From your above list:
-adjusted the floats (only 1, actually)
You remember which one?
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com
forum links to common technical issues
If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum
forum links to common technical issues
If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum
-
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:27 am
- Location: Toronto, ON
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
SUCCESS! It was not the pilot jets, they were fine. It was a blocked vent line between carbs three and four. Wow! Like new bike now. Guess I'll have to redo the carb sync and still have to figure out the air fuel screws. Idles really high on choke, too.
Thanks for all your suggestions I had a feeling it would come down to the carbs.
Dave
Thanks for all your suggestions I had a feeling it would come down to the carbs.
Dave
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
older thread but having similar issues. 1979 CB650 cylinder 1 & 2 running hotter then 3& 4. freshly rebuilt engine, all carbs pilot jet set to 2.25 turns out. carb vacuum sync looks great all 4 have the same vacuum. sluggish acceleration from 1050 rpm to upper limits rpm. engine pops randomly while getting to upper rpms not sure which cylinder(s) plugs look fine...maybe a little wet.
note: throttle revs seems more responsive with choke engaged.?? no idea why.
think I'll use this threads data and rebuild the carbs and look for dirt & clogs.
is there a procedure to extract the 4 carbs properly, very tight fit passing the head intake boots and the airbox boots. I've been pulling the carbs BEFORE unhooking the 2 throttle cables and choke cable.....seems easier that way.
lastly; one of the jets is pressed in, is it difficult to remove and replace.......or should i leave it alone?
note: throttle revs seems more responsive with choke engaged.?? no idea why.
think I'll use this threads data and rebuild the carbs and look for dirt & clogs.
is there a procedure to extract the 4 carbs properly, very tight fit passing the head intake boots and the airbox boots. I've been pulling the carbs BEFORE unhooking the 2 throttle cables and choke cable.....seems easier that way.
lastly; one of the jets is pressed in, is it difficult to remove and replace.......or should i leave it alone?
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Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
I see that you have the 79 carbs with the air cutoffs. Problems with them may match your issues so have a close look for cracks.
Basically the diaphragms are even not required, most later carbs have the circular covers but nothing beneath. But in this case the holes are not drilled, too, so you cannot simply leave them away in 79 carbs but you need to have good diaphragms there.
Alternatively it is also possible to plug some holes to save money and/or avoid separating carbs to change diaphragms. See: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=722 (page three there) and viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8781 for a cheap and simple solution that seems to work, too.
The CB650 carbs go in and out very close. I think you can find hints in this forum how to get them out easier, e.g by fixing the air chamber to the rear with tape etc. But whatever you try, it will not become a fun job.
The idle jets may be pulled with pliers but there is a good chance to squeeze and damage them that way. Better try first if they are free by blowing air through. The only reasons to pull them are obvious damage, wrong size or the channels beneath could not be cleaned by other options like soaking.
Basically the diaphragms are even not required, most later carbs have the circular covers but nothing beneath. But in this case the holes are not drilled, too, so you cannot simply leave them away in 79 carbs but you need to have good diaphragms there.
Alternatively it is also possible to plug some holes to save money and/or avoid separating carbs to change diaphragms. See: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=722 (page three there) and viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8781 for a cheap and simple solution that seems to work, too.
The CB650 carbs go in and out very close. I think you can find hints in this forum how to get them out easier, e.g by fixing the air chamber to the rear with tape etc. But whatever you try, it will not become a fun job.
The idle jets may be pulled with pliers but there is a good chance to squeeze and damage them that way. Better try first if they are free by blowing air through. The only reasons to pull them are obvious damage, wrong size or the channels beneath could not be cleaned by other options like soaking.
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com
forum links to common technical issues
If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum
forum links to common technical issues
If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
This will be a Saturday project. Using duct tape holding back the airbox ports is a good idea, each time i remove/install carbs by sliding in/out i run the risk of breaking the choke cable connector (its plastic). splitting 4 carbs isn't too difficult, I've got it well documented in images. i'll take that approach for complete inspection, cleaning and rebuild.
thank you for the two forum links.
thank you for the two forum links.
Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
I believe this is the air cut valve set component you're describing.
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Re: Hello from a new member. 1979 Cb650 with a couple of issues.
Exactly.
Be careful with the small O-Rings on the short tubes between the carbs. Very annoying to find a leak there.
Be careful with the small O-Rings on the short tubes between the carbs. Very annoying to find a leak there.
Cosky's great (free) online manual: http://cosky0.tripod.com
forum links to common technical issues
If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum
forum links to common technical issues
If you really like this site and you would not like to see it vanish soon, have a look there: Urgent: Future of HondaCB650.com Forum
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