Starter clutch

[Ibsen]

Yes, looks like the parts are afraid of the scrap-yard. Next time you could try to hang the order form for a few days next to the bike until you post it.

It has crossed my mind.

It looks like the Castrol GPS might have made a difference after all.

[Ibsen]

And I think I might have found an easier way to overhaul the starter clutch. I bought a complete used starter clutch assembly off Ebay that I'm going to put in the new springs, rollers and caps into, and then just replace the complete unit.
I got the clutch for $44, shipping to Norway included:

[Volker_P]

You seem really serious about that, I guess it will not venture to fail any more now.

BTW: The two holes on bottom center look strange. The inner ring has holes, but the surface around it looks bent (or just an reflection?) and I wonder about the second hole in the outer part. Although these parts do not move against each other and it probably plays no role, be careful with that starter clutch.

[Ibsen]

Yes, I noticed that too after a closer look. The seller told me it was in good shape though, and I have bought a few parts from him before and they were in excellent condition, so I took his word for it. On the other hand, the holes in the outer edge of the starter clutch were there from the factory, at least they are on the pictures in the workshop manual.

But the most important part is the starter gear. They are no longer available from Honda, so if it's good I will at least have a spare gear. And if the starter clutch I bought can't be used I will have to go to plan B and rebuild the clutch that is in the bike.

[Buber]

Don't worry about this "kind of" bend. I had those clutches out of 2 different bikes, and they both had it, and they both were running good. It's just the way it looks.... When you will get out yours you will see it the same.

And off topic - I was just on a Virago meeting (my wife rides Virago) and I was surprised how many appreciative good comments my Honda got from those Viragers.... It seems that I'm a owner of a classic, fairly well maintained, and not modded bike!

[Ibsen]

Thanks Buber.

And yes, our classic bikes seems to attract a lot of attention from others. I have experienced this a lot of times over the years. Even my little 75 Kawasaki 400 gets a lot of attention. I remember I read an article once where a rider of a modern sports bike said he was going to sell his bike and buy a classic bike because the classic bikes got way more attention than his did.
I don't know if he ever got serious about it though.

[Ibsen]

I have dismantled the starter clutch that I bought, and took a few pictures of the parts.

The first picture shows all the parts. I took these pictures after I had taken out the rollers, plungers and springs, and I had installed to of the three rollers, plungers and springs.



The surface on the sprocket where the rollers are catching show some wear, but the diameter is well within the service limit so I will reuse it. The parts to the left are the new parts.



The plungers in this clutch was badly worn on the end that is hit by the rollers. They were also deformed and was locked in the groove so I had to knock them out with a very tiny steel spike inserted through the small holes on the outer edge of the clutch.



But the metal plate that is pressed onto the clutch had moved and the screw holes were partially covered so I had to loosen them in a sequence when I dismantled the clutch.





The rear of the primary sprocket assembly looked pretty good despite the signs of wear from the rollers.



The primary sprocket also looks good.



Here I have installed all the rollers, plungers and springs and put on the sprocket to see how the starter clutch assembly looks without being installed to the primary sprocket. And as far as I can tell, it should work fine with the new parts, but I will make a final decision when I have taken the starter clutch out of the bike and are able to compare the two. But it might be a while till I do so though.

[Volker_P]

Thanks for the interesting pictures. Did the springs suffer from pulling out or did they really be that different when they still were mounted?
In picture #4 the holes are obviously misaligned. Probably here a bolt or a rivet is missing that fixed the cover plate (and the screw holes) against turning. Compare if something is in there when you take out your original starter clutch. Maybe I find time to look for a starter clutch "somewhere" myself to check that.
Did it venture to fail any more since then?

[Ibsen]

As far as I can tell from the pictures in the workshop manual, nothing is missing in those holes. But it looks like there are some kind of rivets that are used to plug the holes for the springs/plungers. And two of the springs got deformed because they were locked up inside the hole, probably by the rivets that had been knocked sideways, and I had to pull them out with a pair of pliers. The last spring wasn't locked up, but like the two others, it had been compressed because of the locked up plunger and lost it's tension.

So far the starter clutch in the bike are working pretty well, and I haven't had the time to deal with it any ways yet.

[Buber]

IN the ones I disassembled, those rivets were holding in place the cover. that's why (I think) they are protruding a bit through this cover.
And, it seems that those plungers are made from too soft material. I had exactly the same thing in mine.
You must have had problem removing those torx screws, with such misaligment. Oh, hold on - you didn't took it out of your bike yet! I hope you don't have this inside, because it may be a real bummer.

Regards!

[Ibsen]

You are right Buber. That is the clutch I bought off Ebay. The good thing is that the starter sprocket an the primary sprocket and the rubber damper inside the primary sprocket assembly seems to be in good shape. So at least I have got some good spare parts.

[Ibsen]

Hey Buber, I found another starter clutch from a 1982 SC that is in good shape. And when I opened it I found that the coil springs in this clutch were longer than in the other clutch that I bought. In fact they were the same length as the springs I bought from CMS. And apparently Honda changed the length of these springs at some point, since the springs in the first clutch I opened have got 23 coils, while the springs bought from CMS (they are the correct Honda parts number) and the springs in the 82SC clutch have got 33 coils. That is quite a difference really, with it's 44% increase!!

[Volker_P]

Thanks, that's interesting to know.

[Buber]

well, they must found out that the force required was greater. As i said - I tried with a REALLY strog ons, but it was a grave mistake. It would ress the rollers too much, and they would wear off really quick. Sound coming from the engine was SCARY... I took it off immediately. So you dont want to overdo the strenght of the springs

Still, i found that i my situation "home manufacturing" was the best way.....

And it works!

[Ibsen]

And thanks to everyone, especially Buber, for the advises.

I replaced the starter clutch today, and by following the instruction Buber posted it was a straight forward job. It took me approx 3 hours, and some of time was spent on fabricating a tool for the clutch hub nut from a 24mm socket with a cutting wheel.
When I got the oil pan off and the primary shaft out, it was easy to see what the problem was. All the three screws holding the starter clutch to the primary drive sprocket had worked loose, and when I got the clutch and starter sprocket out I also discovered that one of the plungers for the springs were jammed into the hole. I replaced the sprocket and the starter clutch with one from a 1982 SC that was in good shape, and I used the springs, plungers and rollers that I bought from CMS in Holland.
And now the starter and starter clutch works like a charm.

And I'm sorry, but I didn't take any pics this time.