Starter clutch

[Volker_P]

Thanks for the report, Ibsen. Good to know that it is really no big deal if one is prepared and knows what to do. Now your CB ist again almost like new, I guess .

[Ibsen]

With the starter clutch fixed, a new air filter, and a new set of spark plugs it now runs like a raped ape.

[Tunes81CB]

Thanks to all who put this post up. I have successfully replaced my starter clutch assembly! I had a parts bike out behind the garage. I removed the engine and removed the oil pan. BAM! There it was. I had a copy of the post with me along with the Primary Shaft schematic. It was a breeze on the removal. Then into the garage with the parts. Put my 650 up on stands and started working. The culprit on my starter was the torx screws. They had stripped out and one was broken. My solution was to put thread lock on the new used clutch. Finished it all up in about 6hours from start to finish. I have had much success with this forum! Now I will need to clean my 650 up and post Pics.

[Ibsen]

Glad you got it fixed.
Loose torx screws was the problem with my starter clutch as well. But since I already had the parts I replaced the springs the plungers and the rollers. But I have checked the rollers, springs and the plungers closely after I took them out and they are in good shape so the real problem was the screws.

[moose373]

Gentlemen: I used this approach from Buber and it worked well on disassembly. Problem was broken springs all 3. But, on reassembly I just cant seem to get the clutch/cog-gear in properly. When I manage to get the pin into the clutch and look thru the shaft hole I see that the clutch/gear is not lined up exactly. So, I cant get the shaft to go in. What am I doing wrong?
Charlie Herrmann
Kintnersville PA

Hi guys!

As much as i can't say exactly what is happening with this particular clutch, I'm feeling like an expert when it comes to get this baby out. I did it now at least 4 times (was testing different springs for rollers ) and now from beginning, to running engine after assembly it takes me 2,5 hrs of work.
Below I will try to put it as simply as i can....
Drain the oil from the pan.
While draining, strat removing screws from the clutch cover.
take out the clutch cover, take out the clutch basket
here's a little problem - you need special tool to unscrew the washer to take the clutch out - fastest way is a socket size 24, dremel (or other similar cutting thing) and fashion it yourself. You will need it sooner or later . In order to unscrew this washer you need to block the gears. I found that the fastest way was to put bike on a sidestand, put it in gear, step on the rear brake, and push on the wrench.
this thing out, now unscrew, and remove oil pan. You may want to take away the sump as well - its just pushed into place, and may fall out, when you fiddle with the starter clutch later on.
now, you need to take out the primary shaft. Unscrew 3 bolts that hold the metal plates (one goes as high as the neutral gear thing) and take this all out. You will see which ones.
take out the shaft - it requires a bit of push but once started it comes easily out. Watch out, there's a bearing on it. Just remember to keep it there when putting things back on
and now, thourgh the hole, you see the REAL thing - it is a fairly big cog, with holes in it.
take out the ignition cover, so you can rotate the engine easily using another 24 wrench
have handy a torx 30 head. with this torx you must unscrew 3 screws that hold the starter clutch to the rest of the system. This is the trickiest part. You must do it THROUGH the holes in this cog. You can position each screw by turning the engine by hand - slowly. Another trick - wasted a lot of time 1st time - unscrew AND take out those screws one by one. To do this, you must put a flat screwdriver (from underneath) between the cog and the next part of the clutch - this is the one where all springs and rollers are. This tiny bit of space will enable you to take the screw out (and in later on). You may want to help the screw to pop out with the screwdriver.
Now that the screws are out, the whole assembly (cog and the rollers part) should gently drop down - put a bit of cloth underneath, just in case.

In my case, when this clutch started to slip it was the little push-pins, which heads were "swollen" a bit (fron hitting the roller i presume) and were not moving freely enough - they were jamming inside their holes. Next time, it was the springs inside those push pins - they got warped, and stopped pushing the rollers into place. Since I didn't have real possibility, nor time , nor money to order original parts, I did a drawing of the push pins, went to a local metal workshop, and ordered myself 6 pieces of push pins. Price was 10U$ With slightly smaller diameter (to allow really good movement) and from much harder material (I hope).
I had an event with the springs - I thought, I will put stronger ones, so it will be more secure grip. Yes, it was. Too much of a grip actually. After starting the engine i could hear the rollers rolling heavily on the elements. So, switch off, disasemble, and put new springs.
Springs story - I tried ballpen springs - were very good in diameter, but material quality was poor - they didn't last long, got warped very fast. Again, I decided to do them myself, and now i have a perfect set - I did them from a H steel guitar string. Just right on strenght. G string came out a bit too strong.

Putting things back together - fairly straightforward, just few tricky things.
You must place the clutch correctly - there's a steel pin that transfers the actual power. I found that easiest was to turn the engine so, that the hole for the pin would be at the lowest point of the turn. Then it's easier to slide in the cog wheel and to fit the pin into place. Once you have it there, its time for those torx screws. Again, screwdriver to have some space and put them through the holes in the cog. And then its plain assembly till the end.

Now i realize that this may be a bit clumsy description. heres another one from SOHC4 forum. Bit shorter, I admit...

It can be done! Not only have I done it, but a few weeks ago Steve Tenenbaum and I did his. You don't even have to take the engine out of the bike. Here's how:
1. Remove oil pan, clutch cover, & clutch. The clutch "requires" a special socket from Honda, but I made it out of a 1" diameter steel plumbing pipe and a dremel. Follow the manual's instructions, but don't disassemble the clutch, just take it out.

2. Loosen the two bolts holding the primary shaft in and slide it out. The starter clutch is bolted to the primary drive chain gear, so the chain will keep it from falling out.

3. There are three bolts that hold the starter clutch to the primary gear - you need a Torx 30 head to get them out. You can see them through the hole the primary shaft slid out of. It's tricky, because you have to go through the holes in the starter gear to get to the bolts, and you have to loosen all three before taking it out because the bolt head won't fit through the holes in the starter gear.

Once unbolted it should drop out, and you can see what's wrong with it. On mine and Steve's both, the three holes in the edge of the clutch-outer were warped, and the springs behind the roller push-pins were mangled. Here's a link to the parts, and this site uses the same diagrams the dealers do:

http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.co ... ematic_vie w.asp?schem_dept_id=213328§ion_dept_id=1§ion_dept_name=OEM+% 28Stock+Parts% 29&dept_type_id=2&model_dept_year=1981&model_dept_mfr=Honda&model_dept _id=206277&model_dept_name=CB650

It took us about 2.5 hours to change out Steve's and neither of us have had any problems since the operation. The parts can be expensive, but if you look on eBay you can sometimes get lucky. Email me if you have any questions, and if you live near St. Louis, MO I'd be glad to help out. Good luck!

In any case - I wish you luck, (it's easy, really) and don't hesitate to ask. At least this is a place where I feel solid knowledge And making those parts yourself was no big deal, really!

Regards!

[Volker_P]

Welcome here!
Hmm, sorry, but what exactly are you trying? You already installed the primary shaft and its gear and don't get the clutch basket on the transmission shaft? Or you don't get in the primary shaft?

[toigo]

I was halfway through getting ready to remove the engine (as specified in the Clymer manual) and split the case when I found this thread and one hour later I could plainly see that the 3 torx screws on the starter clutch had worked themselves loose. Very glad to see none of the gears were trashed since that's what I assumed the terrible starting sound was from. Thanks for saving me weeks of work!

Now, the 3 rollers definitely need to be replaced cause they are rounding off on the ends, however one of the 3 pins that sits in front of the springs is stuck inside the starter clutch. I'm hesitant to buy a new starter clutch due to price because everything looks alright other than this.

I've been lightly filing the hole where the pin needs to come out and trying to press it out from the back. Any tips on getting one of the stuck pins to come out or should I just bite the bullet and order a new starter clutch. They are pricey!

Thanks

[Volker_P]

Welcome here!

I am not sure if I really understand your problem (the pin won't come out to both sides? picture?) but I would try to grind the pin if possible.

[cb650]

Wow good to see a thread by Ibsen come up.
You can find used starter clutches.

[grant1982]

Reviving an old thread but I thought it was better than starting a new one...

So I have an 83 and after reacing through all your posts, I was excited because I didn't have to spit the case.

I too am having the issue of the starter just spinning and not engaging the engine. It was the situation where it cranked one moment and the next moment, the starter button was pushed and it just just whined, and has done so ever since. I tried rolling it backward in gear, I even bump started it more than a few times and got it warmed up, still nothing. I checked and made sure the starter was going the right direction if by some chance that it switched polarity (not sure why it would). I moved the starter gear in the engine and all teeth are present and it looks to be in great shape.

So I drop the oil pan, take out the sump and flash a light up in there. I squint, tilt my head just right and I can barely make out the edge of the starter clutch way up in there. But blocking my access are all these cross members that the sump mounts to, there doesn't seem a way that I could get my hand past all that and reach the starter clutch even after removing the main shaft.

Am I missing something?

[cb650]

yes your 83 is a DOHC. way dif than the SOHC this site is for.

[grant1982]

yes your 83 is a DOHC. way dif than the SOHC this site is for.

Thanks for the clarification!

[Raymond22]

Can this trick work on the 1983 dohc model, or are you instructions for the sohc type only?

[Folsoml]

your 83 is a DOHC. way dif than the SOHC this site is for.

Only for the SOHC

[Raymond22]

So more or less,i am looking at a complete tear down or removal of the engine to get the SMC OUT. I assume that's correct for the 83 nh 650?